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	<title>Comments on: Tuesday links: Waiting for the schedule</title>
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	<link>http://www.spartansweblog.com/2008/09/02/tuesday-links-waiting-for-the-schedule/</link>
	<description>A statistical look at Michigan State basketball, with a dash of football talk</description>
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		<title>By: kj</title>
		<link>http://www.spartansweblog.com/2008/09/02/tuesday-links-waiting-for-the-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-2879</link>
		<dc:creator>kj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 20:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartansweblog.com/?p=376#comment-2879</guid>
		<description>Good point, Nick.  I guess the other way to phrase this is &quot;Does MSU tend to underperform relative to its talent?&quot;

Here&#039;s the link you reference:

http://yetanotherbasketblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/how-good-is-big-ten-in-tournament.html

MSU has seven more wins in the NCAA Tournament over the last decade than they&#039;d be expected to based on their seeds each year.

So, like so much about being an MSU fan over the last half decade, it all boils down to how much you value the tournament vs. the regular season.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, Nick.  I guess the other way to phrase this is &#8220;Does MSU tend to underperform relative to its talent?&#8221;</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the link you reference:</p>
<p><a href="http://yetanotherbasketblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/how-good-is-big-ten-in-tournament.html" rel="nofollow">http://yetanotherbasketblog.bl.....ament.html</a></p>
<p>MSU has seven more wins in the NCAA Tournament over the last decade than they&#8217;d be expected to based on their seeds each year.</p>
<p>So, like so much about being an MSU fan over the last half decade, it all boils down to how much you value the tournament vs. the regular season.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.spartansweblog.com/2008/09/02/tuesday-links-waiting-for-the-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-2878</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 20:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartansweblog.com/?p=376#comment-2878</guid>
		<description>Of course &quot;overrated&quot; is a relation and not a property--there are further relevant questions such as &quot;Overrated by whom?&quot; and &quot;Overrated at what time?&quot;

This looks like decent evidence for the claim that MSU is typically overrated by the media at the start of the season.  But I seem to recall some numbers that show MSU has outperformed its seeding in the NCAA tournament pretty dramatically in the Izzo era.  (I think you linked to this some time ago, kj)  So there is decent evidence to suggest that MSU is typically significantly underrated by the tournament selection committee in March.

Again--&quot;overrated&quot; and &quot;underrated&quot; are relations, not properties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course &#8220;overrated&#8221; is a relation and not a property&#8211;there are further relevant questions such as &#8220;Overrated by whom?&#8221; and &#8220;Overrated at what time?&#8221;</p>
<p>This looks like decent evidence for the claim that MSU is typically overrated by the media at the start of the season.  But I seem to recall some numbers that show MSU has outperformed its seeding in the NCAA tournament pretty dramatically in the Izzo era.  (I think you linked to this some time ago, kj)  So there is decent evidence to suggest that MSU is typically significantly underrated by the tournament selection committee in March.</p>
<p>Again&#8211;&#8221;overrated&#8221; and &#8220;underrated&#8221; are relations, not properties.</p>
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		<title>By: SpartanDan</title>
		<link>http://www.spartansweblog.com/2008/09/02/tuesday-links-waiting-for-the-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-2813</link>
		<dc:creator>SpartanDan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 02:29:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartansweblog.com/?p=376#comment-2813</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t care where we end the regular season in the polls. Tournament performance matters more, and the &quot;overrated&quot; list doesn&#039;t take that into account.

Besides, it&#039;s hard to be underrated when everyone always thinks you&#039;re good early on. I&#039;d rather have the high expectations than not be ranked early.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t care where we end the regular season in the polls. Tournament performance matters more, and the &#8220;overrated&#8221; list doesn&#8217;t take that into account.</p>
<p>Besides, it&#8217;s hard to be underrated when everyone always thinks you&#8217;re good early on. I&#8217;d rather have the high expectations than not be ranked early.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark in DC</title>
		<link>http://www.spartansweblog.com/2008/09/02/tuesday-links-waiting-for-the-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-2772</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark in DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 18:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartansweblog.com/?p=376#comment-2772</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d think that any ratings system that does not include tournament performance is pretty suspect. We&#039;ve definitely underachieved in the regular season in some of the past few years, but have had a few strong tournament runs in that time. I&#039;d take making it to the second weekend or beyond in the tournament over a high end of season AP ranking and tounament flameout any day. The only reason to care about the AP ranking at all is that it is somewhat reflective of our inability to claim at least a share of the Big 10 title for quite some time. Conference championships are the only pre-NCAA tournament ranking I really care about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d think that any ratings system that does not include tournament performance is pretty suspect. We&#8217;ve definitely underachieved in the regular season in some of the past few years, but have had a few strong tournament runs in that time. I&#8217;d take making it to the second weekend or beyond in the tournament over a high end of season AP ranking and tounament flameout any day. The only reason to care about the AP ranking at all is that it is somewhat reflective of our inability to claim at least a share of the Big 10 title for quite some time. Conference championships are the only pre-NCAA tournament ranking I really care about.</p>
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		<title>By: kj</title>
		<link>http://www.spartansweblog.com/2008/09/02/tuesday-links-waiting-for-the-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-2771</link>
		<dc:creator>kj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 18:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartansweblog.com/?p=376#comment-2771</guid>
		<description>Before I forget amidst the release of the schedule, my take on the &quot;overrated&quot; data:

1) Looking through the names on the lists--especially the &quot;Since 2000&quot; list--this is not a bad list to be on.  All the elite programs--who of course have higher expectations going into most seasons--are there.

2) MSU&#039;s #1 position on the 2000 list (and 1990 list since the post-2000 years dominate the average on the 1990 list) reflects the inability to maintain the program at the level the 1999-2001 teams reached.  Part of the blame goes to early defections that weren&#039;t necessarily predictable (Randolph after just one year; Taylor after two years; Lorbek after one year; Brandon Cotton after like two games) and may not have been fully accounted for when the pollsters voted in the following preseason.  Some of it is simply underachieving by some pretty talented teams.

3) As noted on the Statsheet site, using the post-tournament coaches&#039; poll results would probably help MSU a bit as they have put together some decent tournament runs in years when they underperformed in the regular season.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before I forget amidst the release of the schedule, my take on the &#8220;overrated&#8221; data:</p>
<p>1) Looking through the names on the lists&#8211;especially the &#8220;Since 2000&#8243; list&#8211;this is not a bad list to be on.  All the elite programs&#8211;who of course have higher expectations going into most seasons&#8211;are there.</p>
<p>2) MSU&#8217;s #1 position on the 2000 list (and 1990 list since the post-2000 years dominate the average on the 1990 list) reflects the inability to maintain the program at the level the 1999-2001 teams reached.  Part of the blame goes to early defections that weren&#8217;t necessarily predictable (Randolph after just one year; Taylor after two years; Lorbek after one year; Brandon Cotton after like two games) and may not have been fully accounted for when the pollsters voted in the following preseason.  Some of it is simply underachieving by some pretty talented teams.</p>
<p>3) As noted on the Statsheet site, using the post-tournament coaches&#8217; poll results would probably help MSU a bit as they have put together some decent tournament runs in years when they underperformed in the regular season.</p>
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		<title>By: DP99</title>
		<link>http://www.spartansweblog.com/2008/09/02/tuesday-links-waiting-for-the-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-2767</link>
		<dc:creator>DP99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 18:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartansweblog.com/?p=376#comment-2767</guid>
		<description>Well I will say that the media love themselves some Tom Izzo.  Absolutely no question.  That ranking may be overstated because of the couple of years where MSU really &quot;underachived&quot; compared to the preseason rank.  In 05 and 07 MSU started off really high, and a couple of the Paul Davis years too.  I don&#039;t have any numbers on me, but I&#039;ll theorize if you start off top-10 and end up in the 20s that&#039;s still affecting that average diff a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I will say that the media love themselves some Tom Izzo.  Absolutely no question.  That ranking may be overstated because of the couple of years where MSU really &#8220;underachived&#8221; compared to the preseason rank.  In 05 and 07 MSU started off really high, and a couple of the Paul Davis years too.  I don&#8217;t have any numbers on me, but I&#8217;ll theorize if you start off top-10 and end up in the 20s that&#8217;s still affecting that average diff a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: GBBound</title>
		<link>http://www.spartansweblog.com/2008/09/02/tuesday-links-waiting-for-the-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-2759</link>
		<dc:creator>GBBound</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 16:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartansweblog.com/?p=376#comment-2759</guid>
		<description>3 of 1st 4, 5 of 1st 8 on the road.
Northwestern 2 of the first 6 games
Ohio State 2 of the first 7 games
No game at Wisconsin
No Michigan at home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3 of 1st 4, 5 of 1st 8 on the road.<br />
Northwestern 2 of the first 6 games<br />
Ohio State 2 of the first 7 games<br />
No game at Wisconsin<br />
No Michigan at home.</p>
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		<title>By: GBBound</title>
		<link>http://www.spartansweblog.com/2008/09/02/tuesday-links-waiting-for-the-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-2758</link>
		<dc:creator>GBBound</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 16:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spartansweblog.com/?p=376#comment-2758</guid>
		<description>Well, the Big Ten Schedule has been released:
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/big10/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/tvschedule.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the Big Ten Schedule has been released:<br />
<a href="http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/big10/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/tvschedule.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/sc.....hedule.pdf</a></p>
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