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A blog about Michigan State basketball and tempo-free statistics


Ode to Goran Suton

Posted by kj on Monday, January 21st, 2008

During his first two seasons on the court as a Spartan, Goran Suton’s play was often a source of great consternation for MSU fans. He’d show glimpses of great basketball skill on one possession but then make a boneheaded error on the next. My summation of his play was, “At any given moment, he either looks like the best player on the floor . . . or the worst.”

This season, he seems to have reduced the number of bad plays so that the positive plays he makes now outweigh the negative. He has, however, not increased his scoring output, so he remains open to criticism from Spartan fans that he’s too inconsistent.

Let’s set the subjective opinions aside and look at the numbers. We’ll examine how his statistical output has changed in four areas from last season to this season. I’ve thrown in his freshman stats for good measure. Keep in mind he played about 12 fewer minutes per game as a freshman than he has as a sophomore and junior, since not all the stats below are tempo free.

Scoring

2005-06: 3.0 PPG, 47.0 eFG%, 73.7 FT%

2006-07: 9.3 PPG, 50.9 eFG%, 64.6 FT%

2007-08: 9.2 PPG, 51.4 eFG%, 71.8 FT%

There’s no discernible difference in his scoring performance this season vs. last. 51% is a decent, but not great, shooting percentage for a college big man. It reflects, to some extent, that he’s the only MSU big man who takes a significant number of tough shots. The rest tend to wait for dunks (Gray) or wide open looks (Naymick)–not that there’s anything wrong with that.

In terms of consistency, Suton has scored in double digits in 8 of 18 games (44.4%) this season. He’s scored fewer than 5 points in 2 of 18 games (11.1%).

Last season, Suton scored in double digits in 15 of 35 games (42.9%). He scored fewer than 5 points in 5 of 35 games (14.2%).

So no big change there.

My take on Suton’s supposed lack of offensive consistency: To a certain extent, it probably is a function of Suton’s personality. When he’s confident, he can score in bunches. When he starts to struggle, he can disappear for long stretches.

But it’s also a function of the MSU offense. Izzo’s offense has always been guard driven. Nearly every big man who’s played for Izzo has been criticized at some point for being inconsistent offensively, the biggest example being Paul Davis.

The MSU offense is not designed to feed a big man the ball in the post on a consistent basis. It’s designed for big men to set screens and get open for easy baskets off set plays. Count the number of times Suton gets fed the ball in the post. In most games, my guess is this number isn’t any larger than 2 or 3.

One shift that doesn’t show in the numbers: I’d guess the percentage of Suton points scored off offensive rebounds has gone up (since the number of rebounds has gone up) and the percentage scored off low post play has gone down (since MSU is playing at a faster pace). It’s possible Suton’s scoring may go up as MSU plays more games against slower-paced Big Ten teams.

Ball Handling

2005-06: 0.5 A/G, 0.9 TO/G, 0.6 A/TO ratio

2006-07: 2.4 A/G, 2.6 TO/G, 0.9 A/TO ratio

2007-08: 1.7 A/G, 1.8 TO/G, 0.9 A/TO ratio

Nowhere has Suton’s hot-and-cold play been more exemplified the last two seasons than in his ball handling. He’d make a brilliant pass one moment and then travel with the ball the next. (Example of a great Suton pass: Check out the third Neitzel three-pointer in the BTN highlight reel I linked to today. Suton passes out of a double team to Neitzel, who’s on the far side of the court. Not many college big men make that pass as quickly as Suton did.)

This season, both his assists and turnovers have gone down from last season. His assist-to-turnover ratio has stayed constant at 0.9, which is actually pretty good for a big man.

I think the reduction in his assists reflects that MSU is bogging down in the halfcourt offense less, so the offense isn’t running through him as much. The reduction in turnovers is probably partially him handling it less and partially him making fewer bad mistakes when he does have the ball.

Rebounding

2005-06: 2.8 Reb/G, 10.1 OReb%, 13.5 DReb%

2006-07: 6.7 Reb/G, 11.7 OReb%, 19.6 DReb%

2007-08: 8.8 Reb/G, 15.7 OReb%, 21.5 DReb%

This is where Suton has clearly stepped up and become a force on a consistent minute-by-minute basis. His offensive rebounding percentage ranks 15th in the nation. He’s the best offensive rebounder on the best offensive rebounding team in the country. Regardless of whatever else he does on the court, let us not forget that.

Defense

2005-06: 0.4 Steals/G, 0.5 Blocks/G

2006-07: 0.7 Steals/G, 0.7 Blocks/G

2007-08: 1.3 Steals/G, 1.3 Blocks/G

Let’s step back a moment into the larger realm of basketball statistical analysis. Mr. Pomeroy (it’s a long quote, but worth it):

If you pay attention to hoops analysis, you’ll notice it tends to focus on offense a lot more than it does defense. Whether the analyst prefers to watch games and ignore the numbers, watch the stats and ignore the games, or find some happy medium in between, the emphasis is on what happens with the ball, not without it. This is in part because the only defensive measures recorded are blocked shots, steals and defensive rebounds. Yes, I would argue that defensive rebounding should be included in the evaluation of defense, because it directly results in preventing scoring. I would also concede that defensive rebounding is a different kind of defense, since unlike the other two measures, it only matters after a shot has been missed. So that leaves us with just blocks and steals to tell us about a player’s ability to disrupt the opposing team’s offense before a shot is launched.

Complicating matters is that blocks and steals are so rare. Big-time shot blockers will record a rejection on about one in ten possessions. We don’t know their impact on the other nine. That’s just talking about the top shot-blockers in the nation. What about the less proficient big men who still rack up blocks, but on one in 20 possessions? It’s even more difficult to assess a player’s impact based on his steals. The best at forcing steals will do so on about one in 20 possessions. That leaves 95% of the player’s possessions unaccounted. What if a player is going for steals all the time, and putting himself out of position when he’s not successfully causing a turnover?

So it’s difficult to accept that block and steal rates are a foolproof way to identify who is making an impact on the defensive end. I am more than willing to accede to traditional scouting in this area. However, one thing I have noticed in the brief time I have been gathering tempo-free individual defensive statistics is that being proficient at both blocking shots and forcing steals is a strong indicator that a player is doing disruptive things on those possessions where he doesn’t get credit for doing either.

Specifically, the numbers I look for are a block rate of at least 6.0 with a steal rate of at least 2.5. In fact, these benchmarks are probably too lofty. I’ve been tracking these stats for the past three seasons, and only two players playing at least 24 minutes per game in power conferences getting have been able to reach these figures. Those players are Joakim Noah (who did it twice) and Shelden Williams, who were both among the best defenders in recent years.

Well, guess what Mr. Suton’s block and steal rates are this season? 5.3 and 3.0. That’s pretty darn close to meeting Mr. Pomeroy’s standard. That’s very impressive for a guy who has nowhere near the athletic ability of a Joakim Noah or Shelden Williams. In the games I’ve seen, he has indeed seemed quite active on defense, particularly for a big man playing 25-30 minutes per game.

Conclusion

Suton remains a solid scoring threat–but not a game-in and game-out performer. It’s unclear how much of the inconsistency is his responsibility, though. The number of baskets his passing has created has declined from last season, but so have the turnovers. He’s a force on the offensive boards–but we knew that already. What we may not have known is that the stats say he’s making a major contribution on the defensive end, too.

Suton tends to be either (1) criticized or (2) taken for granted. Arguably, though, he’s now MSU’s most indispensable player. He’s the leader in MSU’s greatest strength (offensive rebounding). He’s their only big man who can create any kind of offense. If he were lost to injury or foul trouble in a key game, his minutes would be the toughest to replace (particularly in light of Gray’s regression this season).

So the next time you’re imbibing an adult beverage while watching an MSU game, raise a quiet toast to Goran Suton.

Filed in msu basketball, stats analysis

No Responses to “Ode to Goran Suton”

  1. spartanproduceron 21 Jan 2008 at 7:30 pm 1

    nice work as usual, Suton is the guy (along with Naymick) who takes an unfair amount of abuse from the “less knowledgeable” fans who like to rant on the internet. These stats prove what he is, a solid big man, who has improved (most people seem to forget he was not a mega recruit out of high school, unlike Delvon Roe or even this year’s class, he came in with “hope” that he’d be good, not necessarily an expectation of success.

    Part of his problem is still that Goran’s turnovers are often so ugly they stand out, the one against Purdue where he threw a no-look over the shoulder pass into the stands when doubled in the post, was a classic. But I’m very happy with him (and Naymick’s recent improvement) and there’s no reason to think he won’t contribute even more next year.

  2. huberton 22 Jan 2008 at 9:27 am 2

    Interesting analysis, and overdue. The national media has constantly harped about the spartans’ big men and clearly it’s a weakness, but Suton is quietly having a pretty darn good year. Honestly, who is better in, say, the big Ten? I can think of DJ White, Pruitt and the Wisconsin guy whose name escapes me.

    Unlike Gray, Suton has improved every year. Perhaps not his scoring, as your numbers suggest, but his rebounding and physical presence has been noticeably better this year. Remember, Suton was perceived two years ago as a guy who would never be physical enough for the Big Ten. The one area I was hoping for more improvement is outside shooting. a consistent 15 foot jump shot would really open up things underneath for Morgan or Gray/Naymick. Perhaps next year.

    One final comment — is it my imagination, or does he really seem to get up for the big games more than the easy ones? My sense is that he is just more present out there since the start of the Big Ten season.

  3. Hooprakeron 22 Jan 2008 at 2:47 pm 3

    There you go, Goran! We chatted about Suton’s import a few weeks ago and, as the season’s unfolded, he indeed has made himself one of the most critical wheels in the Spartan train. He was the only guy on the floor for MSU in the Iowa loss who played decent ball, albeit in the second half. As Hubert writes, Suton is more passionate in big games. When he gets fired up, he’s a tough man to guard. From here on out, they’re big.

    Hoopraker

  4. Spartalyticalon 22 Jan 2008 at 6:52 pm 4

    Great analysis. He’s been a sore spot in past seasons’ Spartan basketball conversations around the water cooler, but this year he’s doing much better. I’ll take his offensive rebounding over a few additional points (although the former should imply some of the latter) any day. I’d also prefer he not speak on camera, but I digress.

  5. john rhodeson 24 Jan 2008 at 11:01 am 5

    I love to see comprehensive analysis from fans. Suton is another example that players mature at their own rate be it slowly or quickly. Kalin Lucas comes in hot as a firecracker and it takes Suton two seasons to mature to whatever you think he is now. But big men especially have a much harder time especially those who have a European influence in their games. The rough and tumble play in the US is much different from the style in Europe but it has also taken until his senior year, for Drew Naymick to be the rebounding force he always should have been.
    Izzo’s teams always mature slowly and by the end of the season, they usually surprise people who think they’re not much to worry about, based on those stupid “polls” and “rankings” that people seem to put so much store in. Don’t get me started on that.

  6. kjon 24 Jan 2008 at 11:46 am 6

    I read somewhere that one way to increase your blog traffic is to “be controversial.” I thought for sure I’d hit the mark on that with this post. But so far everyone agrees with me about Mr. Suton!

    Back to the drawing board . . .

  7. Scotton 04 Mar 2008 at 4:23 pm 7

    I think that Suton has received a bum rap for “awkwardness” and other criticisms, not unlike Larry Polec did at MSU a generation ago. But while Suton is not a gazelle like Polec (who frankly only looked clumsy or awkward when dribbling the ball), like Polec he’s much more solid that the average fan gives him credit for being.

    Yes, Suton needs to be a bit more driven to excel. But we need to face the fact that he’s a pretty low-key guy. He obviously works hard, as shown by the way he’s reshaped his body as compared to when he was a high school senior.

    Like Polec before him, I fully expect Suton to be greatly improved as a fifth year senior. And considering the fact that Suton is already the best rebounder in the league not named DJ White, that’s a very good thing.

    Suton has a real chance to AVERAGE a double-double next season, and that’s darn good. I’m glad he’s on our side.

  8. [...] as I’ve commented in the past, some of Suton’s historical inconsistency relates to the nature of the MSU offense. I do [...]

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